Move records from one form to another

This topic contains 34 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Sam Moffatt 1 day, 18 hours ago.

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  • August 10, 2017 at 6:13 AM #23955

    Chris Baron
    Participant

    I’m using this as a CRM but have realised I need to transfer some records out to another form to unclutter. How do I transfer a complete customer record to another identical form? Can’t drag and drop like Apple contacts would with groups.

    Not entirely sure what copy record link does. Sounds like it should be the answer.

    Chris

    August 10, 2017 at 8:36 PM #23958

    Brendan
    Keymaster

    Hi Chris

    There’s no function for that.

    But the best way to declutter is to create one or more Saved Searches which will filter your records into smaller sub lists. Whatever criteria you were going to use to want to move from one form to another, just set that up for the Search rules for your saved searches.

    Then let Tap Forms do the work for you.

    August 10, 2017 at 10:24 PM #23959

    Leo
    Participant

    Brendan,

    while I’m reading this topic, I’m thinking of a default filter setting. That would be very helpful. If one select a form the default filter is set so no clutter is visible in the list. Would that be an idea?

    Leo

    August 11, 2017 at 7:23 AM #23961

    Chris Baron
    Participant

    I have a long list of 500+ potential customers, I’ve contacted most by phone and 25% are not interested in any way. At the moment I colour them and then list order by follow up date for the other potentials. I don’t want to delete that 25% but I would like them out of that long list and on another. Hiding them is not the answer as they may change their mind next year and I will need their info.

    Would be nice if I could move individual records around between identical forms as is possible in ‘groups’ in apple contacts. Would it not just be a case of re-routing the to a different form name? Sorry, I’m not a software writer.

    August 11, 2017 at 8:40 AM #23963

    Brendan
    Keymaster

    With Saved Searches you don’t have to delete the originals. Tap Forms will keep those in the main form but your sub lists will contain only the data you want to see at that moment.

    August 11, 2017 at 10:35 AM #23964

    Mike Schwartz
    Participant

    Leo,

    What did you have in mind as a definition of “clutter” that would be applicable to a wide variety of users and database applications?

    — Mike

    August 11, 2017 at 10:47 AM #23966

    Mike Schwartz
    Participant

    Chris,

    To expand on Brendan’s advice, why not add a checkbox field named “Active”, and check the 75% “hopefuls”. You can use the fill-down feature in multi-column list view to do that quickly. Then create two saved searches named “Active” with condition Active = Yes, and “Archive” with condition Active = No. Then you can view just the records of either category, or view them all as you chose.

    Hope that helps,
    Mike

    August 11, 2017 at 10:52 AM #23967

    Leo
    Participant

    Mike,

    I ment all the patients that are no longer patient of mine for whatever reason :-) I would be to have a clean view in the list end linked to fields.

    But my guess is that we all have some records we want to keep but have them out of the view in the list or linked to fields….

    hope I make sense

    Your latest suggestion I use (or similar to that) but in the linked view they all show

    Leo

    August 11, 2017 at 2:06 PM #23969

    Mike Schwartz
    Participant

    Leo,

    Okay, it sounds like you’re comfortable using saved searches with criteria to weed out former patients from your viewed records in your Patients form, but would also like to hide those same patient records in another form where they show up in a linked field. I do not believe that there is any way to automatically hide records that you have previously linked based on field values in the linked record.

    I would suggest that the best way to handle this is to have a checkbox field called “Active” in your Patients form, and to make sure that the checkbox field is displayed within the Link to Form field in your second form, the one that contains the field linking back to your patients. Then it would be fairly quick and easy to command-click each record in the link field that is not checked as Active, and then click the Minus sign under the field to Unlink (not Delete!) those records all at once.

    Hope that helps,
    Mike

    August 11, 2017 at 2:36 PM #23970

    Leo
    Participant

    No, that’s not it. Remember the good old dBase III whet if you deleted a record it gets an asterisk and didn’t show if you want it.

    Now when I select a patient in a link field all the patients shows up. Even the ones marked as not active. If a form gets a default filter this would be overridden and only the active ones are shown.

    Now I mark the non-active and give the record a background color to make the difference. It’s a workaround but it would be nice if a filter did the trick

    August 11, 2017 at 3:11 PM #23971

    Mike Schwartz
    Participant

    Okay, I think I understand now. You’re not concerned with hiding records that are already linked. When you go to your link field, and click the Check Mark control underneath to “Select Existing Linked Records”, you want the pop-up list somehow to exclude your inactive patients, rather than showing ALL the records in your patient form. I do not believe Tap Forms supports that, but you can come close.

    Again, assuming that your Patients form includes a checkbox field named Active, then you can “Group Records By” Active on your Patients form, descending. Then your patient record list will show a heading for “1” (all the active patients) followed by a heading for “0” (all the inactive patients). You still have three additional sort fields you can define beyond that. By doing this, when you go to your second form and link patient records, all the active patients will appear first in the pop-up list.

    Also, if it’s burdensome having to scroll through a large list of records, try taking advantage of the Search Box that appears at the top of the pop-up list.

    Hope that helps,
    Mike

    August 11, 2017 at 11:00 PM #23973

    Leo
    Participant

    Hi mike,

    Done all that the first time I’ve set up my databases.
    As I said, I’ve worked around the problem but using a filter would be so much nicer and gives a lot more possibilities.

    Thanks

    August 14, 2017 at 11:41 AM #23991

    Sydney Sauber
    Participant

    Hi,
    I want to move records from one form to another. Open to other solutions, but “Hide” what I don’t want to see or “only show” what I want to see won’t achieve the desired result.
    Conditions: I have a form called “CatchList”.
    Purpose: Inbox for ANYTHING (website, screen shot, event, task, tech support documentation, pdf, photo, trouble ticket, ideas, research raw data…). It allows me to work on a task, catch something, and figure out the metadata and put it where it goes later.
    Use Case: If my goal is to learn if TapForms allows URL file links and Symlinks while on the TF forum, and in the course of work, I incidentally come across a topic thread that I know I want to address in the future, so I copy the website url into a TF field, copy the text from the post into a “note field”, and snap a screenshot of my own record that I want to move to another form (an instance of the idea “move records from…”) so I can use it to remind me of what the TF content applies to in “my world”.

    LATER: After the task at hand is complete (looking up the URL / symlink info.), I want to clarify the record Entitled “Tech_TapForms_Help_MoveRecordsFromOneFormToAnother” It contains all the data I put into the CatchList. I fill in the fields that help me refine what the item is and what it is for. I realize it is NOT a trouble ticket. It is just a “Record” containing documentation for TF. Thus it belongs in the form called “Tech_TechSupportDatabase”.

    I want to move the record to the Tech Support Database because that form contains more fields that are specialized to help me utilize the content more effectively than if I leave the data in the CatchList Form. The Tech support Database has pick lists for “other applications affected” for data about interoperability, “Enconding”, “companion apps”, etc.

    If a record is a screenshot, it will need to go to the image “Form”
    If a record is a task, it will need to go to a task form, possibly link to a project form…

    What I do to PARSE and Triage the (thus far) 150 records, is create smart folders
    “tasks”
    “images”
    “you get the idea”

    Possible Solution: Only thing I thought of is export selected records and then import them into their destination Forms. It adds a lot of steps considering the RANGE of items / records in the CatchList Form.

    Ideas?

    ps
    This post goes in the CatchList, until I figure out where it goes. Part of documentation for Tech and It’s a form of Raw data showing the kind and quality of writing I did on this date and time ( I am a brain researcher and writer), And it become a an activity log.

    Thanks for helping with Problem solving.
    Sydney

    August 14, 2017 at 11:59 AM #23992

    Mike Schwartz
    Participant

    Sydney,

    You might be able to accomplish some of what you want if each of your specialised forms has a Link to Form field that links to your CatchList form. In each specialised form, you can differently tailor the fields that you wish to view in the linked records table.

    — Mike

    August 14, 2017 at 12:27 PM #23993

    Sydney Sauber
    Participant

    Hi Mike,
    Thank you for engaging in this discussion.
    If I do what you suggest, what happens when I export records from the various linked to and from forms? I haven’t mastered all the conditions and results. I just remember if forms are linked, it doesn’t always result in being able to export the data in the linked forms (which is a problem because I need to be able to work with data in Excel or Tinderbox, etc.

    Something similar happens with printing. Some conditions do not result in being able to print data which happens to be VISIBLE in forms.

    Can you be more explicit in telling me the significant settings that will allow me to print and export the same as if the record is actually IN the form. I am so confused right now I don’t even know which is the parent and which would be the child…sorry.

    Still open, just need some details, please.
    Thank YOU so much!
    Syd

    August 14, 2017 at 12:39 PM #23994

    Sydney Sauber
    Participant

    By the way Mike,
    I LOVE this idea. It could potentially be better than copying!!!
    The result would be almost like iTunes organizing. 1 instance of the content and accessible in multiple contexts!
    Thanks for your help. I am willing to send you my “Document” privately.

    Essentially, this set up is based on a theory of thought…”you don’t always know what something is when it it generated and you never know what it will become (in substance, by association…).
    What starts as a question, becomes a trouble ticket, becomes associated with a task, a work log, a documentation process, answers, procedures, and formal documentation from primary sources, etc.). So your idea would be wonderful!!!

    Help me export and print.

    August 14, 2017 at 1:38 PM #23998

    Mike Schwartz
    Participant

    Syd,

    I did a little testing in my sandbox, but keep in mind that I’m on a beta track so my version of Tap Forms might have some features that aren’t yet in the current released version. And Brendan did have some beta release notes about fixing bugs related to printing link to form fields. Anyway, my current observations are as follows:

    1. Tap Forms will print Link to Form fields, but appears to be printing just gray bars instead of data for Link FROM fields. Possible bug.
    2. If I export to Excel format a form that contains link fields, the resulting Excel file includes the link field names in the header row, but no data for the linked fields in the subsequent rows. I could envision a way for this to work, but it doesn’t appear to be implemented.

    Brendan will have to weigh in whether Tap Forms is currently “working as designed” vs. “working as coded”. ;-)

    3. Concerning parent/child, the form that contains the Link to Form field is the parent form. The linked form, as specified in the Link to Form field definition, is the child form.

    Hope that helps,
    Mike

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by  Mike Schwartz. Reason: clarification of missing exported data
    August 14, 2017 at 2:47 PM #24001

    Sydney Sauber
    Participant

    Mike,
    #1 – Thank you. I have read many of your other posts and it is clear that not only do you have expertise with this type of knowledge representation (TapForms-esque), you also communicate to a wide range of people with varying mastery of this content. When I say thank you for your help, I am not just being polite. I respect the time you take to answer, “sandbox” and assist in problem-solving. From now on I’ll just say “thanks” and you will know what’s packed inside.

    ======
    MS: I did a little testing in my sandbox, but keep in mind that I’m on a beta track so my version of Tap Forms might have some features that aren’t yet in the current released version. And Brendan did have some beta release notes about fixing bugs related to printing link to form fields. Anyway, my current observations are as follows:

    SS: If the suggested implementations are based on capacities that *will be* (90% likely) in future versions, I am fine with that. I like the idea that conditions (in a general sense, not “techie talk”) set now will be functional in the future (next 1-3 versions). The more I know about the future developments, the fewer restrictions I need to accommodate in the present. Thank you for telling me.

    MS: 1. Tap Forms will print Link to Form fields, but appears to be printing just gray bars instead of data for Link FROM fields. Possible bug.

    SS: 1. Same for me App: TF V. 5.1.4 (b1660) Device: MBP 13 Inch, mid 2012

    MS: 2. If I export to Excel format a form that contains link fields, the resulting Excel file includes the link field names in the header row, but no data in the subsequent rows. I could envision a way for this to work, but it doesn’t appear to be implemented.

    Brendan will have to weigh in whether Tap Forms is currently “working as designed” vs. “working as coded”. ;-)

    SS: Same result for me. I once said to Brendan, “Just because people haven’t requested the feature doesn’t mean there isn’t a demand for it. They might just be working around the fact that they don’t have it and don’t think they will ever get it so they don’t ask.” Brendan, if it’s possible, please consider it. Having this functionality eliminates many workarounds.

    ** So am I proceeding as though export and printing will match my desired result or NOT? It’s a pretty big difference in structure and workflow?

    MS: 3. Concerning parent/child, the form that contains the Link to Form field is the parent form. The linked form, as specified in the Link to Form field definition, is the child form.

    SS: Ya, got the concept, Just mapping my instance onto the ontology. Specialized forms = Parent forms and the CheckList form (containing the records to be specialized) = child form, right?

    Use Case / Question: Re: Link To, Link From or “BOTH” ? : *IF* I want one record (instance of this exact forum posting(s))to go into the CatchList, Then be linked with specialized forms: Forum Posts, Trouble Ticket Answers, Tech Support Database, TapForms Implementation Projects,
    *THEN* which is the best kind of link to allow me to enter data into the “root” record AND the fields for the “specialized” permutations of the single instance OR its CheckList metadata (e.g., Owner, source…)?

    Hope that helps,

    SS: It did. Thank you.

    August 14, 2017 at 4:37 PM #24003

    Mike Schwartz
    Participant

    Syd,

    Thank you for the kind words of appreciation. At this point I would summarize your situation as having three areas of concern:

    1. Being able to print records including linked fields. This is already a feature for Tap Forms. If it isn’t working 100% correctly, then I’m confident it will be addressed and fixed.

    2. Being able to export records into Excel or CSV formats, including the content of linked fields. Brendan will have to weigh in on this. I don’t think that it is implemented, but I’d be happy to be told that I’m wrong about that. When I said that I can envision how it could work, I meant that I have a clear vision of how the exported spreadsheet would organize rows and columns to show all the data for the linked records within the Link to Form field. “Simple matter of programming” (SMOP) notwithstanding, implementation might be extremely difficult from a coding standpoint. This may not be on the product road map at all, or it might be low priority even if it’s on the road map. So wait for Brendan to share his thoughts on this.

    3. Incorporating the most useful approach for linking records in the CatchList form to one or more Specialized forms. I initially presumed that the various specialized forms would all be parents that link to the CatchList child form. But for your use case it is worth considering which form is parent vs. child, how to benefit from showing inverse relationships, and one-to-many links vs. many-to-many links. I’ll give this some more thought, play around in the sandbox, and follow up with you.

    — Mike

    August 14, 2017 at 5:36 PM #24004

    Sydney Sauber
    Participant

    Mike, You nailed it. You abstracted and generalized the instance and DO understand the desired result. Clear and concise. I wish I didn’t have to subject you and all the other readers to my extreme specificity and examples in order to get across my current situation, desired situation and application of xyz. I do it with technology because I know if I use the wrong tech term (thinking I understand what it means when I actually do not), then the expert can end up following a line of reasoning that fits my wrong words instead of the Functionality I “MEANT”. Hopefully the “Use Case” allows you to determine the Tech framework necessary to “Make it so.” If I can do anything to be a more efficient communicator, please advise. I am pleased to save us all time and effort. I eagerly await your findings.

    * Would it help for me to send you the Main forms I am currently referring to? I think if you see them, you will see immediately how they “interrelate”

    If so, just tell me how many you can tolerate (;-)and I will send them without MORE chit chat.
    If I hear nothing I will just wait.

    Syd.

    PS I think I should make a TF form for asking Tech questions efficiently on forums. Best, Syd

    August 14, 2017 at 8:07 PM #24006

    Mike Schwartz
    Participant

    Syd,

    Don’t feel bad about loading up a thread with a lot of specifics — nobody is forcing anyone to read anything! And I’m sure that other users can benefit by reading through the forum posts — I know I do! Providing an actual use case is the best thing to do. Tell me that you need to get from Mosul to Baghdad in 5 hours while hauling a 1,000-pound load — don’t ask me for a jeep with an 800 horsepower engine because you think that’s the way to accomplish your goal. (I’ll step down from my system engineer soapbox now.)

    I’d be happy to take a look at your database document that includes the CatchList form and a few specialized forms. I set up a disposable email address for this purpose: mike_tapforms@outlook.com

    — Mike

    August 14, 2017 at 8:16 PM #24007

    Brendan
    Keymaster

    Mike/Sydney,

    2. When you export a form that has a Link to Form field in it, Tap Forms will generate a separate CSV file for each Link to Form field. It will also generate a separate folder for photos, file attachments, etc. for each Link to Form field. So that is implemented.

    If you want to move forms from one document to another though, it’s best to use the Tap Forms Archive format. That way it will maintain the relationships.

    If you see horizontal bars instead of the data for Link to Form fields, click on the Select Fields popover button at the top-right corner of the Link to/from Form field and make sure the checkmarks are all set. Then try printing again.

    I agree that it would be useful to have filters available to filter the Link to Form field’s list of child records.

    So many things to do… :)

    March 4, 2019 at 2:00 PM #33912

    timzu
    Participant

    It would be nice to be able to move records between forms.

    Alternatively, it would be nice to be able to select only the records you want and then export a Tap Forms archive instead of having to export an entire form as an archive.

    OR… when I duplicate a form, have all the records also be duplicated, then I could delete the ones I don’t want in that form.

    March 5, 2019 at 3:18 AM #33915

    Brendan
    Keymaster

    You can export just the records that are visible from a Saved Search to an archive file without having to export the entire form. But you can’t just re-import that back into the same document to try and get the records into a different form. A Tap Forms Archive file contains internally all the unique IDs for the form, fields, record, etc. So when you re-import, Tap Forms will simply update the records in the form.

    March 5, 2019 at 5:54 PM #33921

    timzu
    Participant

    Yeah, I noticed importing an archive file just replaced the records.
    It would probably be more helpful if you could duplicate a form and all the records would also get duplicated and updated with a new unique ID. Then you could delete the ones you don’t want.
    I guess it’s just a matter of really planning out ahead of time how you want things to be organized.

    Just one example of how this would be useful…
    Say a museum curator is using Tap Forms to keep track of their inventory and they start out with one form and put paintings, sculptures, drawings, ancient artifacts, etc. all in one form. Then he realizes after recording ten thousand items, that it would be more convenient to break them out into their own forms as the museum keeps growing. It seems like it would be a huge chore to try to do that right now.

    Maybe just something to think about for an upcoming release?

    March 6, 2019 at 2:26 AM #33924

    Brendan
    Keymaster

    You could use the Export Records function to export your records to a CSV file, then import that into a new form. That’s a workaround for a duplicate form feature.

    But for your museum example, I would recommend using a Saved Search to let Tap Forms separate the different artifacts into separate sublists.

    September 11, 2019 at 10:04 AM #36721

    jeremy foster
    Participant

    There’s no function for that.

    This is really awkward. Coming from Bento I have CRM data in different forms and need to move it.

    September 11, 2019 at 4:51 PM #36722

    Daniel Leu
    Participant

    I don’t really see the motivation to move records since you can hide them using saved searches. With a script you could even hide linked records where the parent is hidden.

    Using a script you should be able to create new records in another form and copy the data over.

    September 11, 2019 at 9:18 PM #36725

    Sam Moffatt
    Participant

    Can you share some more details about the structure of your forms and why you’re wanting to move text around?

    September 13, 2019 at 4:34 PM #36736

    john cesta
    Participant

    I’d like to be able to move them because I have a Form of prospects and when they turn I’d like to move them into my members form.

    The prospects contain name phone council number and a few other pieces of info that are duplicated in the members form.

    To be able to click a few and hit send to would be nice.

    Isn’t there a way to programmatically copy fields from
    One to another, oh maybe not from one form to another?

    I’ll have to check.

    September 14, 2019 at 3:29 AM #36745

    Brendan
    Keymaster

    @john, well, you can accomplish the same thing with Saved Searches. Instead of moving records from one form to another where one form is a list of prospects and another is a list of members, each with the same kind of information, just create a field you use as a sort of Contact Type where you have a Pick List defined with the different types (e.g. Prospect, Member, etc.). Then create a Saved Search for each of those types. Now when a Prospect becomes a Member, just switch the Contact Type and you’re done. With a Saved Search for each Contact Type, you can then filter your master list and show only the prospects independently from the members, etc.

    And when you select a Saved Search to view only those specific contacts, the export records or email function would work on just the set of records found.

    Yes, you could also write a script to copy the records from one form to another if you like.

    September 14, 2019 at 5:56 AM #36750

    john cesta
    Participant

    I agree on the pick list thing and I use this method for other things, certainly works great.

    But with my brain and the importance of the prospects and not forgetting about them or mistagging them etc I need to have them in a separate standout form for quick easy simplified access.

    The way I have it now is ok and it’s not a big hassle to move them over but I think I’ll take the challenge and try and create a script to copy them over.

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    September 15, 2019 at 1:59 AM #36760

    Sam Moffatt
    Participant

    To move from one form to the other, you need to map the field ID’s across. Even if you duplicate the same form, the field ID’s are different between the forms. Essentially you need to go through each of the forms and grab the ID’s.

    The simple way of doing this is to use record.getFieldValue() to get each of the values, then create a new record in your target form with var newRecord = form.addNewRecord() and then with the new record, set the values and save: newRecord.setFieldValue(). A slight variation on this is to use a dictionary and newRecord.setFieldValues() which might look a little better. I’ve done something like that to merge fields from a child record and it’s parent record to create a grandchild record, some of that script is elsewhere on the forum.

    If you’re up for a bit more of a challenge, you could take this a step further and use some of the more interesting parts of API. If you checkout the JavaScript API documentation, you’ll see there is a couple of things that could help you automate some of this via a form script:

    – There is a document.getForms() that you could use with prompter to ask which form to move the currently selected record.
    – There is a form.getFields() that you could use to get the fields in the form.
    – There is a field.name for each of those fields that you can then use to map 1:1 fields from the first form to the second form and then use field.getId() with record.getFieldValue() and newRecord.setFieldValue().

    Assuming you keep the field names consistent on both sides (and if you’re missing a field, you raise an error!), then you could use the methods above to make a generic record copy script. To productionalise it I’d really, really want something that confirmed the field mapping and asked the user (prompter use case again), I’d avoid automatically deleting the record (hello data loss!) and I’d probably want to have a special field that links me to the new record in the new form so that I can quickly get to that record from my old one, verify it’s all correct and then manually delete the old one.

    September 15, 2019 at 4:46 PM #36772

    john cesta
    Participant

    Thanks Sam, don’t know if I’m ready to tackle that yet. Haha

    But my day will come.

    September 17, 2019 at 12:58 AM #36783

    Sam Moffatt
    Participant

    I couldn’t resist giving this a chop. I ended up going with something that just did a copy, you could add a delete in though but I’d want to verify the new record first. YMMV. I posted it over on the Script Talk forum.

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