iCloud sync messed up

[tonyt]

Hi

I am on Big Sur and Forms latest and iPadOS 14.8.1

Over the last couple of days my sync between MacBook, iMac, iPad and iPhone has got really messed up. Spinning sync arrows, numbers counting up in the sync records info in their thousands. Then it stops, then starts again. Changes sometimes show, other times not. Something has got in a muddle, me probably, but I just don’t know what to do. I DO know I have an up to date master copy of my data, several forms in one document, on my iMac!

I have tried disabling sync on all devices, deleting from iCloud on one device and using send to repopulate the other devices from my iMac. This has bee a partial success except for the MacBook. I used send to and my document of 170mb show up as 40mb and is empty. When I have sent tit it opens OK, as per the iMac version. But when I close and reopen the document it is empty and a much smaller size.

I know this is muddled, but hey, so am I!

So, best way to go?

Uninstall all apps from all devices except for iMac, reinstall and try using send again?
Try to sort out MacBook problem as at the moment the others are behaving?
Any thoughts / methods to sort this? If so, please make them as detailed as possible so I can follow them step by step as I am not good at this sort of thing.

If I delete apps to restart from scratch, do I just delete the app from the apps folder, or are there other folders I should also delete on the MacBook? Presumably, if I have to delete from iPhone and iPad, although I don’t want to, that single delete will be sufficient. If I do delete from iPad, will I have to rebuild all my searches I wonder?

Sorry for such a long and rambling post but as you see I am confused and don’t know what to do next. Happy to provide any more info I can and look forward to hearing.

Cheers….

[Sam Moffatt]

On the MacBook, make sure you don’t have another copy of the document stored somewhere that is accidentally being opened. Less problematic on iOS but on the Mac you can easily copy a document in a way that retains the unique ID and can cause the auto-reopen functionality to pick the wrong document. Should only matter if the copy is in the same documents folder. That would be the only thing I can think to double check because it can result in a similar looking document but it being old. One way to double check is to right click on the document name in the title bar to see which document is actually opened and the path to it, comparing the good version against the bad version. This might not be the answer for you but this would be what I’d double check.

[tonyt]

Still having problems, can anyone help please?

[Brendan]

Hi Tony,

You shouldn’t have to delete the actual Tap Forms apps from any device.

The count up in the thousands is perfectly normal. It’s not actually the number of records being synced. It’s the number of changes that are being synced. For example, if you had imported 100 records, then made a change to one field in 10 records, that would be 110 changes that get synced. Now, if you were to delete those 100 records and then import them again, that would be 100 deletion commands plus 100 insertion commands to sync. So now that’s 200, even though you only have 100 records in the database. Plus all the fields, forms, pick lists, categories, and so on that need syncing. So that number can quickly grow to the tens of thousands.

But what you might try is this:

1. Pick a device that is your “source of truth”. That is, the device that has your most up-to-date information on it.
2. Delete the document from all the other devices, keeping the one “source of truth” document.
3. Open the document on the source of truth device and disable iCloud sync on the Sync Settings screen.
4. Press the Delete from iCloud button. That’ll clear iCloud of all the data for that document.
5. Now re-enable iCloud Sync and let that document sync. It might take a while if you have lots of data.
6. Once the first sync has finished, close the document.
7. Re-open the document and wait for it to finish its second sync cycle.
8. Now close the document again.
9. Use the Send Document function to re-send a copy of that now synced document to your other devices.
10. Open them up on your other devices and check to make sure that iCloud sync is enabled. If not, enable it.

That should do it to get all your devices back in sync again.

Sorry for the trouble.

Brendan

[tonyt]

Hi Brendan
Thanks for that. Am away for a few days now so will give it a try on my return and let you know progress.
By the way, if my iMac / iPad / iPhone are syncing OK now, is there a quicker way of adding in my MacBook to the setup?
I do have a ‘Source of Truth’ file on my Mac and will keep it so!
Cheers….

• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by tonyt.

[Brendan]

Hi Tony,

Ok, then just use the Send Document function to send a copy of the document from your iMac to your MacBook.

[tonyt]

Thanks Brendan, will keep you posted in due course.
Cheers…

[tonyt]

Hi
Just returned and found some time to sort this. Before I go any further I have a problem. My iMac, iPhone and iPad all sync my one file I use perfectly.
The file is called ‘Data File’ and is about 170mb in size. On my MacBook, I have the same file showing in the form selector window, but it is only 700k! It is the MacBook that caused the problem in the first place. I am reluctant to load the 700k file on the MacBook to see if sync is disabled in case it starts syncing the 700K file and overwrite my proper file if that makes sense.
I do have a ‘copy of truth’ and backups on my iMac.
What should I do next?
Help appreciated!
Cheers…

[tonyt]

Anyone? I have a couple of days spare and time to try to sort this so help / advice much appreciated.
Cheers…
By the way, the small 700k file does not show up in the form selector of the three devices that do sync, and the large file does not show up on the form selector on the Maccbook.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by tonyt.

[Sam Moffatt]

700kb seems really small though it could be the placeholder file that Brendan automatically creates for iCloud documents. It’s a file that when you open it up triggers the sync down from iCloud even if you didn’t have the file locally already. The Keymaster would need to chime in for the precise semantics but I use that a lot to copy an empty document to all devices before using CouchDB to resync everything. Once it’s been opened and the sync down from iCloud has completed it should be a similar size but that sync is going to be slow for a 170MB document. iCloud’s throughput is horrific, I had another friend of mine complaining about iCloud Photo sync the other day and thats first party Apple!

It won’t show up in your other devices because it already exists as the large size so that should be expected because they’re all working however perhaps you did a delete, restarted TF and that triggered it to recreate the placeholder for you (yay helpful behaviour sort of confusing because things are quirky?).

[tonyt]

Thanks for that Sam. So do I delete it from icloud and use send document from my true iMac file, or open the small file on my Macbook and hope it syncs OK?
Cheers…

• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by tonyt.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by tonyt.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by tonyt.

[Brendan]

Hi Tony,

Just remove the 700 KB file (don’t delete from iCloud) and use the Send Document to re-send the 170 MB document from a device you know has all the data.

Thanks,

Brendan

[tonyt]

Many thanks Brendan, will domthat and let you know!
Cheers…

[tonyt]

SUCCESS! All is good in the world again. Many thanks Brendan and Sam.

[Brendan]

Also please note that there has been talk in the developer community about iCloud having syncing problems:

iCloud syncing issues are plaguing third-party apps as Apple stays silent

[tonyt]

Me again! Today I opened my MacBook for the first time since I sorted out the sync problem. The form selector window showed my ‘Data File’ but instead of 170mb, it showed 700K!
Any ideas where yo go next? All my other devices seem to be syncing fine!
Cheers, and thanks….

[tonyt]

Should I start again from scratch completely, and if so how please?
Cheers…

[Brendan]

I’m very confused how this could happen. Do you have multiple user accounts on your Mac?

Do you maybe have some of your documents in a different location that Tap Forms doesn’t manage? Maybe you have one in your Downloads folder or Desktop or elsewhere that you’ve been using?

Do you see multiple versions of the document in the Recents menu under the File menu? Maybe you’ve been accessing one version of the document from a different location?

If you command-click on the filename in the titlebar you’ll see the path to the file.

[tonyt]

Thanks Brendan, have a feeling that might be the case. Will investigate and report back in a couple of weeks, away again in the Lake District.
Cheers…

[tonyt]

hi
I do not have multiple user accounts. I have deleted all files from downloads. No files show in the document selector window. I have inadvertently deleted the 700K file from iCloud too!
am I OK to go ahead and send document from my iMac? At present, syncing is disabled on my MacBook.
There is no filename in the title bar as there are no files in the selector window to load.
There are three files in the recents window, should I clear them as as far as I can tell I do not have any document files on the MacBook. I have checked the Tapforms container and it does not have any database files in it at all as far as I can see.
when I last used send document I think the file went into downloads. How should I treat this file if I use send again. Do I have to move it from downloads or does Tapforms handle this?
Sorry to keep on about this but we will get there in the end.
Cheers…

[tonyt]

I would really like to get this fixed, so does anyone have any ideas.
Many thanks…

[tonyt]

Never mind, I think I have finally sorted it. My problem was not dragging the document into the document selector window from downloads. I had multiple copies which I had sent in downloads and I THINK that this was causing the problem. Cleared them all out, resent and dragged to documents window. All seem good now. So if you don’t hear – SUCCESS!
Cheers….

[Author]

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